The C.L.E.A.R. Path: A Framework for Getting Unstuck in Leadership, with Dacia Moore
What if the secret to becoming an unstoppable leader in this chaotic and noisy world wasn’t about pushing harder, but about slowing down long enough to hear that still, small voice inside you? In this episode of Spirituality in Leadership, host Andrew Cohn chats with Dacia Moore, a transformational speaker, counselor, and former nonprofit executive director who knows firsthand what it means to lead from a place of faith and renewal.
Dacia opens up about her journey from the corporate and education worlds into the mental health space, where she found her true calling to help others move from burnout to breakthrough. She also shares insights from her inspiring book From Stuck to Unstoppable, where she guides readers to overcome fear, rediscover purpose, and build the courage to move forward with faith and clarity.
Throughout the conversation, Dacia introduces her C.L.E.A.R. framework: Clarify, Learn, Expose, Align, and Replace. It’s a practical tool that helps leaders reconnect with who they are, silence the noise, and lead with authenticity. She and Andrew also talk about the value of “margin time,” those quiet, intentional pauses that allow us to step back, reflect, and make wiser decisions.
This episode is a heartfelt reminder that leadership isn’t just about doing more. It’s about creating space to listen, grow, and let your inner wisdom lead the way.
Key Takeaways
Spiritual Awakening Through Adversity: Dacia’s divorce became the catalyst for her spiritual and professional rebirth, inspiring her to help others navigate pain with faith and purpose.
Faith as a North Star: Integrity, consistency, and inner guidance, what she calls listening to the Holy Spirit, are the foundation of resilient leadership.
Leadership is an Inside Job: Your internal state, managing burnout, self-doubt, and overwhelm, directly impacts your effectiveness and the well-being of your team.
Listen to Your Inner Voice: Whether you call it the Holy Spirit, intuition, or a gut feeling, learning to heed that "still, small voice" is a non-negotiable skill for wise decision-making.
The Journey from Stuck to Unstoppable: Movement requires recognizing you're stuck, doing the necessary work (through coaching, therapy, or self-development), and, most importantly, learning how to "get back up" and recover from setbacks.
The CLEAR Framework: Dacia’s CLEAR framework (Clarify, Learn, Expose, Align, Replace) guides leaders to assess where they are, unlearn limiting beliefs, and cultivate habits that align with abundance and authenticity.
Margin Time is Essential: Creating intentional pauses in your day to step away and reconnect with nature or quietness is not a luxury; it’s a vital practice to combat anxiety and regain clarity.
Lead with Discernment, Not Just Action: In a world of constant "do, do, do," effective leadership requires focusing only on the tasks that only you can do and delegating the rest.
In This Episode:
[00:01] Dacia’s early career in hospitality and sales
[00:28] Transition to mental health and education
[01:01] Podcast introduction
[03:10] Dacia’s leadership background and family influence
[04:42] Lessons on leadership styles and personal growth
[07:21] Professional journey: retail, hospitality, education, nonprofit
[09:05] Entering the mental health nonprofit sector
[12:07] Spirituality and integrity in leadership
[13:39] Burnout, listening to inner voice, and career transitions
[15:50] Inclusivity in spirituality and the inner voice
[19:15] Rediscovering self and purpose
[21:32] Current work: coaching, consulting, and book
[24:28] The journey from stuck to unstoppable
[29:00] The CLEAR framework for leadership development
[31:57] Resources and ways to connect
[33:20] Nonprofit sector challenges and hope
[36:16] The importance of discernment and inner wisdom
[36:45] Practical spirituality and quieting the mind
[38:39] Tactics for breaking out of busyness
[41:35] Closing remarks and contact information
Resources and Links
Spirituality in Leadership Podcast
Dacia Moore
Website:https://www.secondwindcc.com/
Personal Site:https://www.daciamoore.com/
Newsletter: https://www.swsnippet.com/
Andrew Cohn
Music:
Watch our Podcast episode
Transcript
Dacia Moore: I started as a catering manager and I was in the hospitality industry probably seven or eight years. Moved to a different hotel. A hotel that was actually worldwide, still is, and I moved up to the national sales manager position.
Andrew Cohn: What helped you or pulled you into the mental health space after being in retail and education and on the sales side, et cetera? Why that move? If I may ask?
Dacia Moore: What I saw was a need for children because I was over in the education space, but for children who were basically kicked out of 2, 3, 4 different schools and they were all put at our school. So there was a lot of failure, a lot of dysfunction, a lot of anger. And because my father had worked in alternative education, I had a heart for those who are less than, those who are forgotten, those who are thrown away.
Andrew Cohn: Welcome to the Spirituality in Leadership podcast. I'm Andrew Cohn. Spirituality and Leadership is a platform for conversations with leaders at all levels about bringing our spiritual dimensions to our leadership, our teams, our workplaces, and all areas of our lives in order to achieve greater success and fulfillment and build and sustain healthier organizations.
Andrew Cohn: If you'd like to connect with me to talk further about these topics and or about individual or team coaching leadership workshops or team alignment, please go to my website, lighthouseteams.com. Enjoy the podcast.
Andrew Cohn: In this episode of the podcast, I'm so pleased to speak with Dacia Moore. Interesting, she said she also answers to Dacia, beautiful name either way of Houston, Texas. Dacia is an educator, a counselor, someone who comes from a strong Christian faith and has worked mostly in the mental health space, at least in recent years as an executive director in a mental health non-for-profit. And she typically works with non-for-profits and she talks very openly about her own experience moving through a challenging situation in her past. And the experience and gifts and frameworks that she brings to support people to move from being stuck to unstoppable, to leverage their faith to be more effective and grounded as individuals and as leaders. She really is a wonderful source of wisdom. I really enjoyed the conversation. I expect you will as well.
Andrew Cohn: Welcome back to the Spirituality in Leadership podcast. I'm so pleased to have with me Dacia Moore, hailing out of Houston, Texas. Dacia got a really interesting background, which I will ask her to talk about in just moments. She's a transformational speaker and author and mental health advocate. She's a former nonprofit executive director who works with leaders at all levels and communities in different places in different ways, and I really look forward to hearing about your experience and your connection to the topic. But first Dacia, welcome to the podcast.
Dacia Moore: Well, thank you. Spirituality is important in my life and it helps with being the North star. I love that. Your image that you have. It is the North Star for many of us in leadership, so thanks for having me.
Andrew Cohn: Of course. It's great to have you here. Thank you. I'd love to start with your talking with a little bit about your background, as you would describe it, highlight what's important for you and ultimately what leads you to, frankly, having your priorities where they are and energizing you to do the work that you do.
Dacia Moore: I'll give you the thumbnail. My father was what I perceived growing up as a little girl, an excellent leader. My mom and dad got divorced. He stayed in Brooklyn, New York. My mom moved to Detroit, Michigan. So I would go back and forth during the holidays and I would see my father, I would go to work with him.
Dacia Moore: He was the vice principal of the school, and my perception was that everybody just kind of fond over him. He would say it was like the EF Hutton commercial. He would say something and everybody would stop and listen. That was my idea of leadership. And then when I went to Michigan State, did all the things, moved to Kansas City. That's where I had a lot of my professional career. And I really struggled with my leadership style because I was not like my father. He was an extrovert. I'm an introvert. Well, I'm funny, but he was really funny. He told a lot of jokes. So my journey of becoming what I perceive as a good leader based on the feedback that I got from my staff in this most recent role, it was quite a journey and I learned a number of things.
Dacia Moore: Number one, there are all flavors of leaders. Number two, leaders can be born. Yes, that's true, but they also can be made. And you can always improve your leadership skills by listening to podcasts like this, by reading books and self-improvement. So we often, especially in America, have this vision of what a leader is. John Wayne, Clint Eastwood, that's dating me. The strong, silent, handsome type. Right. No, that is not always the best leadership style.
Andrew Cohn: Wait, are you suggesting that leadership is not connected to being handsome? Oh, you're totally bursting my bubble here. No, please continue.
Dacia Moore: They're studies. There have been studies, Andrew, about how people who are attractive have more influence.
Andrew Cohn: Well, similar to the taller candidate tends to be voted for.
Dacia Moore: Right?
Andrew Cohn: I mean, there are these associations. I'm sorry, I interrupted you. Please continue.
Dacia Moore: No, no, no, no. There are leaders of all flavors, all styles. I went through a divorce in the early nineties and that divorce triggered a spiritual awakening in me 'cause I really struggled with the broken dreams that I had at that time.
Dacia Moore: And I went to counseling, my counselor helped me and when I finished I said, I wanna help other people the way you help me, which is why I became a counselor and then got some advanced degrees and I'm working on my doctorate. But my spirituality, my faith really helped carry me through that difficult time. There was a lot of shame, a lot of disappointment, but I was still in a leadership role. So, you know, I'm going to work and telling people, giving them direction, listening, leading, but struggling inside. And those two things have really been what has motivated me to talk about mental health and leadership, because leadership can be very isolating, can be extremely challenging, but also very rewarding when you achieve the goals that you set out in your strategic plan or in your operational plan or whatever kind of planning that the leaders who listen to this podcast do.
Andrew Cohn: Could you give us a little bit of a sense of some of the important stopovers or perhaps steps up through the course of your leadership? Because I know you've talked and you've talked with me about your–
Andrew Cohn: Being an executive director, roles in nonprofits. So I'd love to hear a little bit about what some of those stops have been, because in a minute when you start talking about some of what you've learned and some of the lessons and some of the key takeaways and some stories, it would be useful for me and others to know. Well, tell us about your experience and where you're drawing from.
Dacia Moore: Sure, sure. Well, I have done a lot of things, so
Andrew Cohn: Doesn't mean you're old, by the way, does not mean you.
Dacia Moore: I have varied interests. So I started my professional career as an assistant buyer for Macy's, and I did that for about a year. And then I moved over to the hospitality industry.
Dacia Moore: I started as a catering manager, and I was in the hospitality industry probably seven or eight years. Moved to a different hotel. A hotel that was actually worldwide, still is. And I moved up to the national sales manager position. So that had a lot of responsibility in terms of the kinds of clients that we sought after, as well as managing the sales staff.
Dacia Moore: So did that. Then moved from the hospitality to education and then higher education. So I worked at a community college first in basically their sales office. It was recruitment, and then moved up to administration where I did some associate work as an educator there. Also adjunct faculty and then moved into mental health and started in a nonprofit organization as the day treatment therapist, all the way up to vice president of programs for that nonprofit, and then moved over to be the executive director of a different nonprofit.
Dacia Moore: So sales is kind of an underlying theme and meeting with people and just really advocating for whatever is the thing that I'm representing. So that has been my world.
Andrew Cohn: Thank you. And what helped you or pulled you into the mental health space after being in retail and education and on the sales side, et cetera? Why that move if I may ask?
Dacia Moore: Sure, sure. My plan was actually to become a president of a university, and so in higher ed, higher ed really emphasizes education, and so at the time I only had my bachelor's degree, so I went to get my master's degree in counseling. Because of the personal experience that I had with my counselor, and as part of that degree, I had to do clinicals.
Dacia Moore: So I did my clinicals at a nonprofit and I happened to know the executive director and he said, come over here, do your clinicals, and that'll be great. Well, I loved it when I worked at the nonprofit, so I was still working in higher ed, completing my master's degree. Doing my clinicals at the nonprofit residential treatment, and what I saw was a need for children because I was over in the education space, but for children who were basically kicked out of 2, 3, 4 different schools and they were all put at our school.
Dacia Moore: So there was a lot of failure, a lot of dysfunction, a lot of anger. And because my father had worked in alternative education, I had a heart for those who are less than those who are forgotten, those who are thrown away. And when I saw that the teacher at the time was passing out worksheets, and that was her style of educating these kids who were already so low in their academic career already so low and had experienced a lot of rejection. And from my experience of my dad and my mom was also in education at Wayne State University, I just, I felt that I could help them and that school, so they offered me a job after my clinicals, they asked me to stay, they gave me an offer, and it was an okay offer. You know, nonprofits don't pay a lot. But I felt I could make a difference, and that's what caused me to move.
Andrew Cohn: Thank you for sharing that. And what I'm hearing when you share that story is like your values were ignited in that environment and perhaps reignited not that being an assistant buyer at Macy's isn't something useful for society, but the way you're talking about this, it sounds like it's very much tapped into your values, your purpose, what has meaning for you. Is that fair to say?
Dacia Moore: That is absolutely on point, yes.
Andrew Cohn: Right. So you reconnected to serving this population. Your father hopefully was around to see this and be proud of some of the choices that you made. I hope so. And so I'm curious to know what are some of the, I mean, we're here talking about spirituality in leadership.
Andrew Cohn: You obviously are, as you shared a person of faith that has helped you in times of transition and challenge. Now you're in this role where you can impact the lives of these kids and the teachers and the whole system as well. So how did some of those lessons from your own spirituality and your own faith come to bear? How are you able to extend some of these deeper parts of you for the benefit of all of your constituents in this role?
Dacia Moore: Well, what I learned, the good and the bad, you know, so the good things that I learned were to spend time cultivating my spirituality and my faith, and relying on my faith. Being a person of integrity. So my father would always say what you mean and mean what you say. And in behavior management, that's very important. Consistency, integrity is very, very important. So I learned that and I had to live that out. And I had to live that out in my leadership role. I had some bad actors and staff, and I was much younger at the time and had to let some people go. It was very difficult. One story in particular. So during that time we would do restraints. I mean, we would run after kids. They would run out the door and we would run after them and get them and bring them back. We would restrain kids because many of them were very angry, and one of my staff. Put a student in a choke hold, which was a no-no. And he was a very exemplar staff person, but I had to let him go and that was really, really hard. 'cause he begged me not to let him go and nobody wanted to see him go. But it was a risk. And we had training and that was a big no-no. So those are some positive things. On the negative end, I stated that organization too long. That is a high burnout job. And I was burned out probably in year seven, and I stayed until year nine. I was there too long and I knew that I was burned out. And the thing is, when people are burned out, you think as a leader, nobody can see, but that's not true. Everybody else knew I was burned out because I was behaving. I became apathetic. It was just all of the signs of burnout. And so what I learned from that, especially from a spiritual perspective, is to listen to my inner voice. I call it the Holy Spirit because I had been nudged to start my private practice and move over. But I was scared. I was just scared. I needed benefits. So I was fired. A new executive director came in and a new sheriff in town and she cleaned out all the loyalists to the old ed, and I was one of them 11 people left on the same day, maybe two days. Anyway, I was probably gonna be fired even if those other people didn't leave, and I needed to be because I was not doing what I was capable of. So a lesson that I learned in that situation was to listen to the Holy Spirit, listen to myself, listen to my inner voice. And I think this is a lesson for your listeners too, because some of them know what to do, but they are not doing it. And I find that to be the truth in mental health is people want so badly to start a business or transition to a different career, or move to a new country, or move to a new state. Right? And they know it. They have a knowing, but the fear gets in the way. So I have learned, and through my faith, as my faith has gotten stronger, my fear has gotten smaller. It's still there, but now I'm at a stage in my life where I want to make the rest of my life be the best of my life. And I have less fear now because I only have, I don't know, x number of years left, but I'm gonna do as much as I can between now and the time that I walk into eternity.
Andrew Cohn: Beautiful. What a beautiful intention. So I wanna ask you about something and some of the words that you use because you are clearly coming from place of faith, and you talk about the inner voice as the Holy Spirit. And the way you describe this, if I'm hearing correctly, my inner voice is the Holy Spirit comma, my inner voice. And I hear you describing that like for some people, they don't relate to the language of the Holy Spirit. Some people do. I've talked to a lot of people from a lot of backgrounds on the show, and for you it sounds like i'm good. It could be. It's the Holy Spirit. It's my inner voice. It's the quietest part inside of me. How do you, and some of this goes to the application of these ideas in inclusive ways, but it could be that if you're dealing with someone who doesn't come from that religious. Foundation. So are you comfortable describing the inner voice as, no, that's the inner voice inside of me. It doesn't need to be necessarily for someone else. It doesn't need to be a grant. I could see someone listening to this and going, well, I can connect with the voice inside myself, but I don't know about the Holy Spirit. That's a big one.
Dacia Moore: Sure. Well, as you're talking, I'm thinking of Native Americans, our brothers and sisters who are Native Americans, and they talk about their spirit guy. As I listen to you, I think about our Jewish brothers and sisters, and they talk about their leading. There's a framework that they go by in terms of working with integrity or leading with integrity and being authentic, I think of people in the Buddhist and other religions and it doesn't have to be a formal religious thing 'cause I don't perceive myself as religious. I perceive myself as spiritual and I think we all have a spirit. We have that inner knowing what I was doing, some studying with emotional intelligence. There is the vagus nerve that goes from the amygdala to the gut, right? And so we have now learned that when you have that gut feeling, it really is your brain picking up on cues in the environment that are so subtle, but that your brain puts them together. And because it is connected to the vagus nerve, which is in your gut, you have a gut feeling. So I think most people would say that. Some people call it their conscious conscience and maybe that is what it is. It doesn't matter what you call it. I think the practice of connecting with yourself and your, that quiet, that still small voice within you. 'Cause if we talk about being spiritual, then we're talking about something that we're able to connect to because it is around us. It is within us. It's everywhere. Spirit is everywhere. So how do we get to it? Well, it's not necessarily through our intellect, although that might be part of it, but it's through the quietness and the practices of hearing our voice and hearing ourself.
Dacia Moore: This world is so noisy. It's so noisy that it is a gift to give yourself, to stop scrolling, turn off the tv, put on some soft music and reconnect with you. I can't tell you, Andrew, how many people, mostly women who come to me and say, I don't know who I am anymore. I do not know who I am. I have been so steeped in motherhood and wife or career. I have been climbing and grinding for so long, I don't even know what I like.
Andrew Cohn: Right. And what's implicit in that is what I like may have been sort of fed to me, and I incorporated that and I internalized that belief system that says, this is what I should like. Am I hearing that correctly?
Dacia Moore: Yeah. This is what I should like, this is what you should be doing. If I'm 30, I should be grinding. 40, I should be here, 50, I should be there. I should be making this amount of money. And we're so purposeful and intentional that if we don't take the time to listen to that inner voice, we can be headed in the wrong direction and not even know it.
Andrew Cohn: Absolutely. And not know it until something happens, like a burnout or a life crisis or something like that. And I feel compelled to say that, although it's not the same. These issues of waking up and thinking, who am I and whose rules have I been following is exactly what we do in the men's retreats that I lead and in the men's circles that I participate in. Again, it's not the same. I don't mean to suggest that, but it's actually quite similar in terms of like, whose life are you living? Whose beliefs have you adopted? Oh, I've got this job and I've got this position, I've got this, and whatever. And that's why people are, especially at a certain age. I mean, people can get into trouble when they're younger and people can get into trouble in midlife and the trouble looks different. Maybe more expensive trouble, but the trouble looks like, okay, and who am I now? And that's why there's such, I believe, a movement now we're at this place in terms of midlife wisdom. Next chapter, I have a colleague who's written a thesis in a paper about what she calls middle essence. And that life stage of crisis and awareness, and who am I now?
Andrew Cohn: So not to pull away, but just to put in a plug for men is doing this healing work as well. So with that awareness and the awareness of your experience, your own practice, your own wisdom garnered through hard times and also good times. Talk a little bit about your work now, if you will. Maybe you wanna talk about your book. Always good to plug a book. What are you focusing on now and how do you bring that experience and wisdom to the people you serve now?
Dacia Moore: Now I am semi-retired but I actually, I work all day 'cause I like to work. My mom was Jamaican. I've had a lot of jobs and I do enjoy being productive. So I retired from the nonprofit that I led for eight years and took some time, probably about a year to figure out what is my next step.
Dacia Moore: I moved to Houston to be closer to family. That's where I am now. And in the interim, I was offered a position as a search consultant for nonprofits. So I'm kind of in the nonprofit space leadership space because I help with searching for executive directors and development directors for the Moran Company. And I like that work because I have a voice and a perspective and a circle of influence that the other search consultants don't have. And so I bring some diversity to the table as well as certain perspectives that they don't have, and I like that. I also do leadership coaching for a foundation in Kansas City. They fund a number of nonprofits, and I'm helping some of the smaller nonprofits. So my heart has always been for those less fortunate. And I remember thinking when I worked in higher education, I'm gonna have a scholarship for the C student because the A student gets a lot of play. The B plus student gets a lot of play, but there are some hardworking students at the C level who have done a lot of things and are not recognized.
Dacia Moore: So I'm a helper at heart, and so I do those things. I also have the private practice and I do have my book right here From Stuck to Unstoppable. And of course a coaching program that goes with it. Well, not of course, but that is the way to move from stuck to unstoppable is to take some steps and it takes work. And we're talking about being emotionally stuck. Or even as leaders, we can be stuck personally. I had a client tell me yesterday, I have gotta get my personal leadership together. My professional leadership is fine, but personally I'm just not where I want to be. So in this stage of life, my tagline is to help you make the rest of your life the best of your life.
Dacia Moore: That's what I wanna do personally. By giving back and offering wisdom and experience and knowledge, which is why I'm so glad to be on your podcast, because I hope that's what I'm doing here is sharing some thoughts. So I'm doing that through the mental health counseling, through the leadership development, through the search, and through just talking, about having conversations like this.
Andrew Cohn: Great. Beautiful. So could you share a bit about what is in your experience, the journey from stuck to unstoppable? And I love asking very broad questions by the way, so you do whatever you like with this, the journey from moving from stuck to unstoppable and how it connects to your spiritual foundation.
Dacia Moore: Well, that is a big question and the thumbnail answer is 'cause the kind of work that I do is cognitive behavior therapy, so it's about your mindset. I'm doing a lot, and I have been intrigued by the mindset of high performing athletes and high performing entertainers because they work so hard. But you have to have a mindset of you are a winner and you also have a mindset to recover.
Dacia Moore: And I think that is the biggest thing in helping people on the journey is learning how to recover. I often think of, did you see the movie The Gladiator with Russell Crow?
Andrew Cohn: Sure,
Dacia Moore: I love that movie. But if you're gonna be a warrior, a gladiator, a leader, a champion, lots of different words, you've got to learn how to fight offensively and defensively, but you also have to learn how to get back up. Because if you stay down, you're gonna get killed. Right. And I was looking at the Black Panther at and Superman movies. Any kind of marvel Marvel or hero movie, there is a period where the hero wants to give up, but if he just, or she just keeps going. So From Stuck to Unstoppable is number one, recognizing that you're stuck, which I've shared the story about me not acknowledging it.
Dacia Moore: Recognizing that you're stuck doing the work that you need to become unstuck. That may mean coaching, that may mean self-help development. That may mean counseling. That may mean a lot of different, there's a lot of ways to do it, but you have to do it. So it's a series of professional development and insight related activities that are important, and then you have to learn how to get back up, meaning how do you recover from disappointment? Maybe that fundraiser only made 30,000 and you was hoping that 50,000 was gonna come in. There are lots of ways that we can get disappointed in the workplace and we can then ascribe that to, especially women. We take it personally. I'm not enough. I hear that a lot. I'm not enough. I should have done better.
Dacia Moore: I should have done this, should have done that. So learning how to recover is a big one, and learning how to let offenses roll off like water off a duck's back because unforgiveness and resentment and bitterness are big in the political world and in social media, and it's just a cancer that can get into a person's spirit and destroy your spirit. And so we have to learn how to get back up and let things roll off and how to get back in the game so you become unstoppable by continuing to get back up and learning from your mistakes, but not allowing your mistakes to sabotage you or you sabotage yourself by taking it personally
Andrew Cohn: Or allowing those mistakes to define you. Yeah, and what I'm hearing too is that the get back up is both a physical thing. I'm thinking about a boxer, but also you were talking about athletes. So my mind went to athletes but also get back up is, for example, tennis players. And I know that some of these world renowned coaches have talked about the 15 seconds between the end of a point and the beginning of the next one are critical for resetting and coming back and whatever happened in that last point. What do I need to be ready in sort of a set position either to serve or receive the ball? And that's above the neck.
Dacia Moore: Yeah. That certainly has to do with mindset. It has to do with training. It has to do with being in the present, not allowing that failure, the thing that just happened to influence the, now that takes practice. We don't normally operate like that. We ruminate on most people live in the past. Or they live in the future. So they're always planning and anticipating for the future or they're regretting what has happened to them in the past. So it takes training to bring yourself to the present, and that's what athletes have that as normal folks don't have is somebody training us to be present, to be in the present and to let some things go into think about and visualize success.
Andrew Cohn: So if you were to go work in an organization or with an executive director or another leader in a nonprofit, and I believe those, that's your typical client in that world, correct? Yeah. So you go in there, what type of exercises or processes might you introduce to them to just start to lean into the space that you're talking about?
Dacia Moore: I have a framework that I use. It's clear. C-L-E-A-R. And so of course the first thing is assessment. Where do you wanna go? And where are you now and where do you wanna go? Right? So very simple, but there's a lot underneath it and there's a lot to it. So it can go deep and broad. But that would be one of the first things is to talk about what do you see as areas of improvement? What do you see as, what are some of the people whom you admire? What are some of the qualities and values that you wanna start to incorporate into your leadership style? I talked to a new client yesterday, and some of her issue is presence, executive presence. She needs to work on that. So how do others perceive you?
Dacia Moore: So there are assessments and things that we do. In the first few sessions, and then it's learning about yourself. You can't manage yourself if you don't understand your own motivation. Some of the women that I work with, and I work with men too, but women seem to take things more personally and struggle, although there are many strong women who are in leadership, which is great anyway, people pleasing behavior and those motivations that we are socialized with early on. Recognizing that in yourself and managing that internal dialogue so that it comes out in your presence, in in the way that you want it to come out. Then we have the E, which is exposing negative thoughts and limiting beliefs. That might be about staff, that might be about upper management, that might be about where you think you all are gonna go. Then A, we're gonna align for abundance. Let's think bigger. Let's dream bigger, let's go forward. And then R is replacing ineffective habits. As James Clear says, we say bad habits. But that's a judgment. But ineffective habits are habits that you have that are not leading you in the direction in which you want to go. So that's the assessment. There are many other activities and exercises we do within each of those letters to help the person get to where they wanna go.
Andrew Cohn: I appreciate that simple framework and how it's both aspirational but also very practical and tactical. Lovely. Beautiful. And is that outlined in the book, those five steps?
Dacia Moore: They are exactly. The five steps are gonna be in the next book. This one is more of a overview. I have been wanting to write this book From Stuck to Unstoppable probably for 10 years because when I work with a client. Mostly counseling, but also coaching. There's some foundational principles that I share with each of them about how thoughts and feelings are connected and being insightful. So that's what this book is, but it's not a clear connection to the clear framework that I have. So it's kind of an introduction to that.
Andrew Cohn: Got it. No, that works perfect. And you know, I was just wondering if people wanted to learn more about that framework where they could do that.
Dacia Moore: Well, I have a coaching class coming up in January, so they could go to my e-newsletter website that, I think I sent that to you, the SW Snippet. 'Cause I give a snippet of information twice a month in the e-newsletter. And we'll have a coaching group coming up to really dive deep into that clear framework. That's the only place it is right now.
Andrew Cohn: Got it. And that is www.sswsnippet.com. That's it. Love it to learn more about that. Absolutely. And then From Stuck to Unstoppable is available on Amazon. Got it. And is the s sw snippet.com the primary website if people wanted to learn more about you and your work? Or would that be something else?
Dacia Moore: Yeah, it would be something else. So the snippet, SW snippet is for the e-newsletter sign up to. Stay in continuous contact, but if you wanna go to my website, it's second wind cc.com because we all can use a second wind. And the CC stands for counseling and Consulting. So second wind, all one word spelled out. cc.com and that's where most of my information is.
Andrew Cohn: Got it. And I'm curious to ask you, just pivoting a little bit here, as you look at the world of nonprofits and the prevalence of burnout and the challenges that nonprofits have now in terms of funding and otherwise, which don't get me started, but in terms of that world and that sort of forecast, are you at all optimistic that people can lead effectively in these roles despite the challenges? And what do you think are the keys to help them do it?
Dacia Moore: Well, it is a challenging time. I went to a workshop last week and they did a word cloud. It was a workshop on what's next for Houston nonprofits, and the facilitator did a word cloud, and the biggest word that people sent to the poll was uncertain. And I have feelings about a lot of things, but I do know that my ancestors had it worse as yours did as well. All of ours. And I just have a lot of hope that we need to pivot. That's really what it is. I remember the recession of 2007 through 2010. I remember the other recession in 2015. I mean, so you have to learn to pivot and figure out your strategy. So that is what we're doing with many nonprofits. Of course, if they had a lot of government funding, they're gonna probably have to make some cuts temporarily or permanently. But helping them to have hope, because there will always be a need and there will always be challenges, but there will always be people who have overcome challenges. And when we think about mindset, that's what we have to think about is. How can I adjust and adapt so that we can survive? And that is what has a lot of nonprofit leaders worried. But you do what you can and then you talk to other people. You try to get as much information as you can, and then you do the best that you can and you try to, you know, you just keep going.
Andrew Cohn: Right. And gather support where you can.
Dacia Moore: Right
Andrew Cohn: yeah. And you know what comes up to me, as you say, that is integrity and leading with integrity is not for the faint of heart. This is a tough watering hole that we're in here, especially, maybe particularly in the non-for-profit world. It's very challenging and it's not for the faint of heart, but fortunately in my experience, the people who are leading in that space have plenty of hearts and strong hearts. So perhaps you're not given anything you can't handle. Those strong hearts will be tested.
Dacia Moore: I love that. Strong hearts. Absolutely. And that's how you become strong is by being tested. So I work out every day and I'm in strength training. And the way to get stronger is to have heavier weights. I mean, you don't wanna break down.
Dacia Moore: Well, our muscles do break down and then recover, but you have to have resistance, and that's how we become stronger. So looking at the resistance as an opportunity. Now that's easy to say. But when you're in the seat, it's, it's much more difficult. But trying to look at what is the opportunity here, what is the opportunity? And then checking in with your spirituality to try to muster wisdom and discernment so that you can navigate to what that next thing is.
Andrew Cohn: Discernment, and I hear that as you're describing it, as our key input to decision making, which way to go in the fork in the road. I can look within or I could look to some foundation to help with that decision.
Dacia Moore: Absolutely. Discount our inner wisdom, which we call it our inner voice or lots of names for it. That's why it's important to take care of yourself and spend that time cultivating that inner voice or the spiritual aspect of yourself so that you have that wisdom with you.
Andrew Cohn: Yeah, and what I'm hearing too is this is very practical. This is not some squishy, esoteric thing. This is like, no, in order to function in this world at a high level, we need to be able to direct and guide ourselves and connect to that North Star Compass, lighthouse, whatever that might be. And in order to do that we need to quiet down, we need to tune in. Some of that may be spiritual practice for people if they choose to call it that. I know that it's interesting with a recent group of men, I was talking about how many of us, myself included, have been afraid to really get quiet because when we really get quiet, there's voices that we can hear that I may not wanna hear, and that could be the subject of a whole other podcast or five. And, and when we really get quiet, so too are the healthier, positive, aspirational, deeper, encouraging voices of wisdom, the voices of the sages with us, not just the saboteurs, which we might be concerned about, but those sage voices can be heard and it's so difficult to hear them in this noisy world that you mentioned.
Dacia Moore: Absolutely. Absolutely. I was talking with a nonprofit executive director, just trying to help her to release some things and dial down her anxiety. There's so many things that an executive director has to do, and she was feeling the pressure. So we can miss the wisdom by do, do, do, do, doing the do, do, do, do doing. And the busyness. Yeah. And looks like you're productive, but are you really?
Andrew Cohn: And productive with the right thing. Not busy, productive.
Dacia Moore: Right, right, exactly.
Andrew Cohn: Right. Just as a way of winding this up, I'd love to ask a tactical question that what do you offer and what do you offer as suggestions or possibly tactics for breaking out of the do, do, do, if you will, that the Frank Sinatra syndrome of the do, do, do? Like, how do we break outta that?
Dacia Moore: Well, the one suggestion that I have that I hope everybody listening will take heed, is the pause and giving yourself permission. When you feel that anxiety, that overwhelm, that intensity, there are a lot of words for, but when you feel it creeping up to allow yourself to step away from the desk or the computer for even just two minutes and go outside if you're able to, and connect with nature because nature has a calming, relaxing influence on us. So I'm a Christian and my belief is that I don't have to get into that, but I heard somebody say we were created in a garden, so that's why we connect with nature, right? But whatever your beliefs are, nature helps us to slow down. And there's a quote that says, in nature, nothing is hurried yet. Everything gets accomplished. So connecting with that and giving yourself permission to step away and dial down your, whatever the word is. I think it reinforces the wisdom and discernment that is needed to go back into the ring to say, okay, what is the next best move? All right. To not just do, do, do, do, do, because not everything you do, and I think I mentioned this to you in our pre convo, there are a lot of things you want to do and there are many things that you probably should do. I hate using the word should, but I will. But as the leader, there are only a few things that only you can do, and that's what you have to focus on, are only the things that only you can do and try to delegate the rest. And so that helps with the priorities in terms of stepping away and then readjusting your thinking to like, okay, what are only the things that I can do that are on my plate? On my to-do list right now. And then you get back into the ring and you knock it out and when it starts to creep back up or people are calling and emailing and knocking on the door, just wait a minute, I'll be right back and just step away. 'Cause that margin time is what I called, it gives you a chance to recalibrate when you're just do, do doing. It's like you're going 90 miles an hour on the freeway. You miss some things.
Andrew Cohn: I love how you call it margin time. That's beautiful. And yes, you miss some things and you miss the people who perhaps it's very difficult to connect with people when they're waiting on the side of the road for you and you're going by 90 miles an hour. Hard thing to do, but margin time. I love that. I really appreciate that wisdom. So you've talked about the website for Second Wind, you also have a personal website, is that correct?
Dacia Moore: Yeah. Well, my name, daciamoore.com.
Andrew Cohn:All right, Dacia. Got it. And the book is on Amazon. There's swsnippet.com. I know you have a LinkedIn profile.Moore Dacia and Moore with M-O-O-R-E. Thank you so much for this conversation. I know it will continue in some form or another, and I appreciate the work that you do and have a lot of respect and admiration for the work that you do and the way that you do it. Thank you so much.
Dacia Moore: Well, thank you for the work you're doing to help folks in leadership to become better and to become their best selves. So thank you for having me, and thank you for the work that you do.
Andrew Cohn: Thank you for listening to Spirituality in Leadership. If you want to access this wealth of knowledge and insight on a regular basis, please subscribe to the show. Join the network of leaders who want to do and be better. You can go to the site, spirituality in leadership.com or your preferred podcast platform to catch all the episodes and learn more. Until next time, take good care of yourself.