Love as the Foundation: Bringing Heartset Education to Classrooms and Leadership, with Stu Semigran
Imagine a young boy with cerebral palsy, limping into summer camp, quietly asking a teenage counselor to teach him how to tie his shoes, not because he couldn’t learn, but because he craved twenty minutes of undivided, caring attention from an adult who truly saw him. That small act of vulnerability sparked a lifelong mission for Stu Semigran, co-founder of the EduCare Foundation, to create spaces where every child, and every person, feels honored, valued, and capable of extraordinary growth.
In this episode of Spirituality in Leadership, host Andrew Cohn reconnects with Stu Semigran to explore how love, compassion, and practical “Heartset®” principles can transform education, organizations, and leadership itself. Over 35 years, EduCare has reached hundreds of thousands of students, especially in underserved communities, proving that when cultures of kindness, listening, and forgiveness flourish, both academic results and personal fulfillment thrive.
Stu shares his journey from a rebellious young teacher to nonprofit leader, illustrating how seeing the best in others, even when they cannot see it themselves, creates the Pygmalion Effect in real time. The conversation explores the eight Heartset skills: honoring, praising, heart-centered listening, choice, forgiveness, conflict resolution, turning challenges into opportunities, and service, showing how these timeless practices bridge spirituality and high-accountability environments naturally and effectively.
At the core is love, not as a soft ideal, but as a quiet, powerful foundation for learning, trust, and courageous leadership. From the “I see you” exercise to the gift of self-forgiveness, Stu highlights the hope he witnesses in today’s youth stepping into compassionate service amid global challenges.
This episode offers educators, leaders, and anyone seeking more heart in high-stakes settings both inspiration and actionable wisdom.
Key Takeaways
Love is the Foundation: Authentic care and kindness create environments where learning thrives; people respond deeply when they feel seen and valued.
Heartset Over Mindset: Shift from cognitive growth to a "growth heartset" through eight skills: honoring, praising/encouraging, listening from the heart, power of choice, forgiveness, resolving conflict, using challenges as opportunities, and giving/receiving service.
See the Best in Others: Believing in others’ potential helps them rise, shown by gains in test scores and graduations.
Forgiveness as Self-Gift: Letting go of judgments frees energy for growth; it’s not excusing harm but releasing its lasting poison.
Accountability with Compassion: Honest feedback, celebrating wins, and building trust turn organizations into learning cultures.
Service and Emerging Leadership: Nurturing heart-centered skills helps youth grow into compassionate, courageous leaders, creating lasting hope and impact.
In This Episode:
[00:00] Introduction
[01:36] Meet Stu Semigran, co-founder of the Educare Foundation
[03:40] Stu’s story and his connection to spirituality in leadership
[05:58] Growth and impact of Educare Foundation
[06:31] Philosophy of education: curiosity and individuality
[07:37] Serving underserved students and changing perceptions
[09:57] Building a culture of caring and kindness in classrooms
[12:03] Leadership in education and organizations
[13:15] Being vs. doing in leadership
[15:18] Stu’s spiritual framework and the principles that inform his work
[23:30] The power of vulnerability and asking for help
[25:26] Letting go and empowering others
[27:19] The intersection of love and accountability in education leadership
[29:52] Celebrating success and positive feedback
[35:14] Defining forgiveness and letting go of judgments
[37:21] Conflict resolution and the four truths
[38:08] Service, giving, and the cycle of heart set skills
[41:18] Youth leadership and service in action
[43:28] Stu’s contact information
Resources and Links
Spirituality in Leadership Podcast
Stu Semigran
https://www.amazon.com/Heartset-Education-Way-Living-Learning/dp/1735913030
stusemigran@gmail.com
Andrew Cohn
Music:
Watch our Podcast episode
Transcript
Stu Semigran: So that listening, that honoring that culture of caring and kindness that's sincere, that establishes that natural desire for kids to want to learn. Naturally we are curious people.
Andrew Cohn: Not surprising on this podcast is leadership and what a beautiful demonstration of leadership that is. That is not only, I guess, appropriate, but relevant and useful and practical and just the opportunity to support and nurture and help these kids succeed.
Stu Semigran: For an organization that's educational, that we're providing, that we have to have it ourselves as a staff. So those are the same tips we're bringing into the classroom. We're saying, how do we bring it inside of our organization? How do I bring inside my way of being?
Andrew Cohn: Welcome to the Spirituality in Leadership podcast. I'm Andrew Cohn. Spirituality in Leadership is a platform for conversations with leaders at all levels about bringing our spiritual dimensions to our leadership, our teams, our workplaces and all areas of our lives in order to achieve greater success and fulfillment and build and sustain healthier organizations. If you'd like to connect with me to talk further about these topics and or about individual or team coaching, leadership workshops or team alignment, please go to my website lighthouseteams.com. Enjoy the podcast.
In this episode of the podcast, I speak with Stu Semigran. I'm so happy to have Stu on the podcast. He is the co-founder of the Educare Foundation, which has been around for over 30 years providing support to students and teachers in public schools. It began in Southern California and it has extended to other regions supporting about a half a million students so far in its tenure. Stu talks about the foundation of Educare. He talks about his book called Heart Set Education and also reviews the eight Heart Set skills that are really about bringing love into education in very practical, specific, measurable results, driven and fulfilling ways. Frankly, speaking with him about his work, it's inspiring to me. It makes me think about how can I bring some of this into my work in the corporate sphere? How can I support what he's doing in my community and just continue to be inspired by the stories he tells and the practical, person, centered, supportive, loving way that education has improved through Educare's work. I suspect you'll find it inspiring as well.
Welcome back to the Spirituality and Leadership podcast and I am really, really happy to have with me today a man who I've known, tangentially admired for decades. And finally having a conversation in depth about the work that you do and have done. And that is Stu Semigran, co-founder of the Educare Foundation. Welcome to the podcast. I'm so glad you're with me from that beautiful forest in the Northwest.
Stu Semigran: Wow. Glad to be here Andrew. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.
Andrew Cohn: Yeah, thank you. Thanks so much. And so this conversation might be a little bit different than many we've had on the podcast, which tend to be very business focused, sometimes healing modalities focused. And you have been, as an understatement in the education space, as you might define that, for a very long time. I'd love to hear a bit about your story, your work very broadly as you choose to discuss, and also what connects you with this topic of spirituality and leadership.
Stu Semigran: Well, good. It's interesting that you bring up the business connection. A funny story is I grew up in New York. My father was a manufacturer, a garment industry. And he always says, you're going to take over the summer Grand Lingerie company with your brother. I said, I don't think so. But that whole kind of thought of business in terms of giving and providing. So once I became a teacher and I, we connected against well, you're in a business just called the business of education. And I realized an Educare foundation that Candy Samogram my wife and I founded was all about how do we bring what we discovered as teachers in the classroom, how do we bring what we thought wasn't quite there yet in public education into the system of education and how do we bring in terms of kids being aware of who they are and what their life could become. So it wasn't just about do I get a job, do I graduate, do I get on the team, who's my next girlfriend, boyfriend? I was like, what's meaningful for you that you can discover inside of your education that will carry purpose and motivation into your life. So that was the roots of where educare started back 35 years ago. I was teaching and I went up to my principal back then, I said, I've been learning a lot about self awareness and I've been learning and taking classes in terms of goal setting and social skills and self esteem building. And our kids are lacking this. Can I teach a class? And he said, you're, you're assigned to teach math and get those test scores up. So the answer would be no. Well, interestingly enough was able to end around him legally and started teaching electives where kids started to build skills of self awareness, social skills, goal setting skills, time management skills. And all of a sudden their test scores were going up. And he came back to me about six months later and says, you know, the scores are going up. Whatever you're doing, don't tell me about it. Just keep doing it. And that was kind of the desire to go. Our kids need much more than what public education is providing them. And that was the impetus to leave the classroom. And my wife is teaching early on in her career kindergarten. And we both said, can we reach more kids? And providing them what we thought was so necessary for them to have filling and rich lives. And that was the beginning of Educare Incorporated in 1990. And since then, with a lot of twists and turns, We've served over 450,000 kids in many cities around the country, globally, and some areas as well. And it's been just a joy to be at the head of that beautiful.
Andrew Cohn: 450,000 kids that you've touched, because you wouldn't take no for an answer from your principal. Even this. So thank you for your persistence. Even what's interesting is how you're pointing out, like, the kids now have more fulfilling lives and their test scores are up, right?
Stu Semigran: Yeah. And we saw that. I mean, I saw that in the classroom as a teacher. I said, they need to have a reason to learn. They need to have their creativity spark from within them. Educare, which, when we picked that name years ago, it's from the Latin root educate. To bring forward what's within them, what's within any of us. It's there. And if a kid's interested in the arts or kids interested in science, rather than they have to have a prescribed set of. You have to learn this formula. And a lot of kids didn't want to take that path. So we said, how do we kindle the interest, the curiosity, the creativity, the desire from within them to match what might be, what their life holds for them. And that's where we kind of took it from there. I would see kids, they didn't care about math. They were just tremendous speakers. And there they were out in front, leading the voice of kids in terms of social justice and other things. So it's like catching the kids where they're at and then bringing them out front.
Andrew Cohn: When you began working with kids who I presume they were the. Were they the kids in your classroom or certainly in your school?
Stu Semigran: Yeah, Well, I. I had an interest always for work with kids who are underserved kids in the poorest of neighborhoods of Los Angeles and elsewhere. And there's one funny story about that. As Educure was starting, I was asked to come out to Philadelphia school district and introduce it into their school district, if possible. And so we started working with a group of kids that no one would know were the lowest achieving kids in the incoming ninth grade. And at the end of the year, their test scores came up and the principal said, you can tell others who you're working with. And the reason we held back on telling the teachers who these kids were was because we wanted them to be seen and cared for and considered as high achieving kids. And the teachers came back and they go, why did you pick those highest achieving kids to take your program? I said it wasn't that, it was the opposite. But you treated them, you saw them and the best. And that's in some ways they rose to that occasion along with the work we did with them. So a lot of our work is how do we see and treat people in the highest of regard rather than in our limitations of how we already categorize them? And that's the same with kids and how kids can do that for themselves and one another.
Andrew Cohn: Yeah, I've heard that called the Pygmalion effect. Right. Just how we envision what we think someone's capable of and how that. And how. Right. When teachers perceive certain children as more capable, less capable, their teaching is impacted by that point of view. Is that right?
Stu Semigran: Yeah. And that's one of the first. We have a set of skill sets in the work we do. We call them heart set skills. And the first skill set is how do we learn to honor people, to see the best in them, to not judge them. And a lot of that work is for kids, is they have to start seeing the best in themselves. And if others don't see that, they probably won't catch on. So a lot of times we say, can you catch the best of yourselves even if others don't? And sometimes we have to be the ones to see that when the kids don't see it in themselves. So that way of really reflecting and catching yourself at your best and then looking at what you need to improve upon at the same time.
Andrew Cohn: Where do you start? With kids who just don't see that they don't have the encouragement. It's just not present. How do you nourish a seed if there doesn't seem to be a seed? Of course it is there.Right. I suppose that's the answer to my question. But how do you do that?
Stu Semigran: It's a great question. And it takes me back to when my first year, I was kind of a rebel, radical young teacher coming into public school, and I would see teachers sitting behind their desk handing out worksheets to the kids, and then they would go back, pick up their newspaper, as a teacher. And the kids would have to. And I go, there's no accident that these kids are not interested in learning. So in order to have the kids have that interest, part of it was, how do I create a classroom where we have interest in each other, when we really, truly care about each other, and it's not just to get through and where we can set a standard of excellence because we care, not because that's expected of you. And so part of the work that I would do in my classroom, when we set up, when we do our programs in schools, is we call it a culture of caring, a culture of kindness. How do we establish that? And it's simple things. Looking at kids, saying their names, welcoming them, enjoying one another, celebrating each other's success, and finding ways to bring out the best. And it takes, it's not an overnight thing. But as that culture and that environment starts to build in a classroom, in a school, in a family, then they can catch on to, there's something of me I want to bring out more. And these people sincerely care about me. It's been said, you know, kids don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. So when the caring and the kindness gets established and the authenticity of the teacher, the honesty, the sincere interest, a parent, a teacher, then there's more room. I remember having a parent come up to me at one of our parent workshops. Son, about 17. She goes, my son doesn't talk to me anymore. And part of that was taking her back into how she could establish an environment in her home where he would want to talk to her, where she would want to listen to him, not just tell him or advise him. So that listening, that honoring that culture of caring and kindness that's sincere, that establishes that natural desire for kids to want to learn naturally. We are curious people.
Andrew Cohn: Well. And the word that comes up for me around that, not surprising on this podcast, is leadership. And what a beautiful demonstration of leadership that is. That is not only, I guess, appropriate but relevant and useful and practical and just the opportunity to support and nurture and help these kids succeed.
Stu Semigran: Yeah. And I see the same thing in being at the head of Educare for many years, that because for that to happen in a classroom, for an organization that's educational, that we're providing, that we have to have it ourselves as a staff. And how do I demonstrate that, and how do I bring that into my organization? Out of authentic caring for people, out of truly listening, asking for feedback, taking their feedback in terms of change and course correction, celebrating together, catching the best of ourselves. So those are the same tips we're bringing into the classroom. We're saying, how do we bring it inside of our organization as well? How do I bring inside my way of being?
Andrew Cohn: Right.
Stu Semigran: Beautiful.
Andrew Cohn: Right. So you're talking about leadership within your organization and also how your organization models leadership or invites teachers to lead in their own organizations, if you will, in their fiefdoms, in their classrooms.
Stu Semigran: Exactly. And one of the best compliments Andrew ever received. When I visited one of our schools, the principal came up to me and says, since your people are here working with our kids and our teachers, we're happier. School quite know how to put the words on. It's not just what you're doing, it's your people who show up and there's something about them that lifts us and makes it a happier place. And I go, to me, that spoke to more than just what I do, but who I am, what our staff does, who our staff are, who our teachers are. We'll do a lot of work with curriculum and teaching, great new ideas for teaching and teachers want to get a hold of a book that we've published on that. And I said, before you touch the book, let's really reflect on how we can really transform ourselves to really exemplify the principles and activities we're going to put out in your curriculum. So there's that shifting from beingness to doing this that we think is at the core of our work
Andrew Cohn: Or shifting from doing this to beingness, you mean?
Stu Semigran: Right, that's what I meant.
Andrew Cohn: Yeah. Right. And it's interesting how it is book focused. It's interesting. I've had people on the podcast talk about even religion itself as being so book focused and how that's fine for some. It could take you to a certain place or whatever. And what else is available? You know, my first career when I was in LA in the 90s was in the law. Talk about book focused.
Stu Semigran: Right.
Andrew Cohn: And then how do you bring, you know, more of yourself to that and how do you. There's no being in the law. But don't get me started. There's a reason I don't want to. I don't want to be reductive, but. Yeah, but so, but let me ask you the-you know, there's a word that comes up a lot in this podcast, of course, called spirituality, which I generally don't define because it's so broad and means so many different things to different. But I'm curious to know for you what is, if anything, And I believe there is for you, spiritual about this work that you're doing, and what are the spiritual dimensions or principles that you're bringing forward? And this is all. It may be very subjective to you. It may be very broad in general, but walk me through your framework and how it impacts and informs the work that you do.
Stu Semigran: Yeah. Well, two things come to mind as I'm listening to your question. One takes me back to where I don't share this very often, but I still like to share it. Today I was a little boy in my bed, waking up in the morning, maybe five, six years old, and I would feel a lot about what was going on in the world around me and my family and chaos and trauma and things. And I always had a prayer that I would speak. And my prayer was to God. As I knew God, I said, whatever I can do so we can have less fighting, less yelling, less hurt. I just want it to be better for people, for myself. And so that kind of somehow kind of set a pathway into my life. And without using the word at that time, love it was, how do I carry love forward for me and for those I love and those I care about? Educare. One of Educare's taglines is love is the foundation for education that unless kids know and we create environments of love, learning won't be at its highest and kids won't be supported in the best of ways. So when I look at spirituality and I have my own practice, my own beliefs with it, in fact, people. I've been called out sometimes in the educational world. I don't know what you do spiritually, but whatever you do, would you please say something to these people here in the room? Because what you carry of a message and the way you carry it could help us. Someone passed away, whether it's a crisis in the school. So I look at spirituality being very personal, but at the essence, to me, it's. If I had to put it in the words, how do we carry love into an organization, into our practice, into our relationships? And it doesn't. It can be very quiet. It can be very unknown. But it's an energy that I think pervades. People ask me, how is it that Educares continued? So many nonprofits fall out? And here it was just the two of us, my wife and me starting. And now there's a staff of about 500. And many of them were kids of ours, kids being our students, 10, 15 years. And I said whatever that was, that we were guided, that we listened carefully to our Voice, our wisdom that we trusted to me, that all played a part in wanting to have more love inside of kids world and their life and their schools. So maybe around about. But that's how I kind of looked at it.
Andrew Cohn: That's beautiful. And I've spoken with other people on the podcast about love and what that means and how it can. Do we use the word? Do we not use the word? What does it mean? I think the important thing is, again, as I've said before, if there's a God, I don't think she cares what language we use. It's much more what we're doing and what we're carrying. And just, you know, it's interesting. There's–sometimes when I speak with people about their experience, their experience could be very different than mine. For example, whether they're a horse trainer or an engineer or a field medic in Australia or whatever. I've had those people on the podcast. I have been a student in many forms, in many iterations. And I have seen the difference between teachers who will meet you as a human being with some level of caring and for whom it's a transaction.
Stu Semigran: Yeah. And you know that word love that you speak of that I mentioned? It was pretty far out for me to even mention it at conferences. And in fact, about 10, 15 years ago, I was doing a seminar at a conference and it just came upon me and I said, let's everybody just say the word love out loud together for about 60 seconds and see what happens. And I thought, well, they're going to show me the door very quick, and the last time I'm going to be speaking at a conference. But something wanted to take that word out and we started, and as we did, a lot of laughter and quietness, whoever it was, but we started to speak about love as something apart from how we can categorize it. You know, intimacy, sexuality, physicalness, where it's just a really warm regard for people, whoever you're with. And I would do an activity called I see you as an icebreaker, where here we are, 50, 100 strangers, and we would just walk around and pause to look at each other, and the only words you could say would be, Stu or Andrew, I see you. And the request was just look and see who you're with and let them see you. And it kind of opened the door for another definition or understanding of what love could be. Could be, as Carl Rogers had written about, positive regard, really seeing people without knowing their history, without categorizing them. And that's the way we look at how kids could be seen. And when a kid is seen that way and they. They know it, after a while they'll. They'll know they're being valued and seen and heard. Learning is very close at hand.
Andrew Cohn: Yeah, beautiful, right. I'm seeing this person, this child, at whatever age, as someone valuable, someone who am I extending love toward? I'm not seeing them as a poor performer. I'm not seeing them. I'm not ranking them, I'm not judging them. Is another thing that can get in the way. Yeah, interesting. I'm prompted to think about how I can use an exercise like that with business groups or board retreats or things like that that I do. It's interesting and maybe some modification, but only slight.
Stu Semigran: Well, we prime the pump with it a little bit, so otherwise it'll throw everybody way out of the water. There's a video clip I use and it's public share and it's not mine. Of a school where. And everyone's dealing with someone, but no one ever stops to consider that everyone is dealing with someone. And you hear the stories of the kids, the teachers, and all of a sudden you realize you're in a world that you're just walking by rather than understanding that everyone's got something. And when that's, you know, there's many funny stories of my kids. And as I learned who they were, just one story. I used to. As a young kid, I worked at a camp for disabled kids, physically and disabled kids on Fresh Air Fund New York City outside of this. And they put the poorest of kids in with the most disabled kids. And they grouped them together and it was quite something. And the first day as a counselor, one of my kids, his name was Eddie, comes up to me and he had cerebral palsy. Everybody made fun of him. He limped around and he would joke about his own disability. And he said, can I get you to teach me how to tie my sneaker laces? I said, yeah. So every time it’s rest period after lunch, 20 minutes is Eddie and me sitting together. And I was, bow, you put it through here. And after a few weeks, he learned it. And I got back to the city, his mom calls me, can you come over to our apartment? They lived in a higher, you know, low, you know, low rent area. And I came up, a college student, free dinner. Great, I'll go. And she said, how was summer with Eddie? And I said, great. Did you know? He came back. We're sitting across the table eating spaghetti meatballs. And did you notice that Eddie has a new skill? He can tie his shoes. And she looks at me and she goes, what? And he starts laughing and she goes, he came to camp learning he knew how to tie his shoes. I said, no, 20 minutes, two weeks, I got him to tie. She goes, you didn't catch it. But this doesn't have a father. He was smart enough to know he can get 20 minutes with you to teach him by you and him alone. And it changed my whole look on, you know, I didn't know him, but I loved him. And he kind of, he wanted that more than anything else. So it took me into teaching, actually, that one experience as an 18, 19 year old camp counselor going, gosh, I saw someone's need, I didn't know who they were. And that was the greatest thing for him. So to me, that's where life takes on new meaning when we can really see a stranger or anyone as someone so valuable in front of us.
Andrew Cohn: Yeah, Beautiful, beautiful story. And I also acknowledge this is a kid who asked, Good for him.
Stu Semigran: Yeah, I know. And a lot of kids, a lot of us, me included, asking is one of the hardest things to do. And that's one of the things we teach kids. We talk about being vulnerable, being strong. They really can work together. And we all are interdependent. So let's find out. And I would sometimes come in on a bad day in my classroom when I was teaching middle school and I tell my kids, bad day here, back off, I need some space. Don't come at me hard today because I'm not in a good mood. And the kids understood that. And as a parent, I had to learn that too, that I don't have to be super dad every day and family will support me if I let them know what's going on.
Andrew Cohn: Yeah, Beautiful. And in a position of leadership to be able to acknowledge, hey, I'm not having a great day. It's like, it's okay, I'm not perfect, I'm not trying to be perfect. And to me, that gives permission, right? To the others who are following to stop, first of all, treating you like you're perfect. But secondly, holding themselves to some standard that I could never share if I'm not totally at the top of my game.
Stu Semigran: Exactly. And I think. And I come back into my role as president CEO of EduCare for many years. That was a tough one for me because I wanted to be at the pinnacle of I got it. So let's all rise to the occasion and go, wait a minute, I don't have It. I need support. I need someone brighter than me, more experienced than me at this part of our organization. And I think I'm looking back on me, that was one of my blessings that I was able to bring about people who had those qualities that exceeded where I could take it.
Andrew Cohn: Yeah.Beautiful, right? And to me, it's a demonstration that education is. It's continuous. There is no end. There's always something that we're learning to make ourselves better, perhaps at both the being and the doing levels.
Stu Semigran: Yeah. And I think it also gives people a privilege to be the teacher. I'm just thinking some of my staff at EduCare, I would just look to them going, I have no clue how to get this done. Come on. And they would take it much further than I can even think about it. And letting go, that was, you know, I'm now referring back into my more of my executive role at the nonprofit versus my classroom experience. And letting go and placing people in positions of authority and having the trust in them is, I think, part of that. That same idea of seeing the best in someone and then letting them go with it. And that's always a challenge. It still is for me. I like to be the fixer, the problem solver, the master controller. So I work on that to this day.
Andrew Cohn: Yeah, well, I think. I think we all do. And that, as I often say to my clients, that part of you who likes to be the fixer and jumping in, whatever, that's gotten you to where you are. Right, Exactly. You don't want to lose that part, but maybe you just need to negotiate with a little bit, perhaps. Yeah. So let me ask you a question, because something has come up in this podcast a number of times where people will be talking about some dimensions of spirituality and leadership. However, people may understand that, and particularly in worlds where, including an education, where results are expected. Yeah. Education is one of those places. And so how do you hold in this space? I mean, how does, how do you hold in love in education, which I hear as a theme, and have some degree of accountability, giving people a tough message, giving feedback. How does one do that? Because your environment's a bit different than the corporate world that I'm typically in. And yet there's times when you need to give tough feedback. To me, that's not inconsistent with being loving and supportive. Right. Actually, maybe I want to shut up and hear you talk about that, but let's talk about that intersection.
Stu Semigran: Yeah. Well, first I want to address it in terms of results, and it had a lot to do with how does EduCare be sustained? And we know we needed funding from a lot of different sources and we know funding came with results. And so early on we said, I knew it worked. From my experience in the classroom, I could see it intuitively. I knew it worked. When you provide that type of environment for kids, they're going to shine, they're going to thrive. But that wouldn't be enough just to say that to some funder. So we went quickly into research and evaluation as an organization and we had universities doing research on our work and everything from test scores to family relationships to college entrance to less referrals, truancies, attendance, all of that. And we had some very powerful studies. And one study I think was done out of UCLA that students who attended EduCare for four years in high school had a 23% graduation rate bump. And these were in low performing schools. And when people saw that data and the research behind it, it opened up eyes. So I said, we have to provide. This isn't just feel good, look good, this is really helping kids in very practical ways. As many stories I can tell on that level then in terms of how do we bring it in, in terms of providing feedback and keeping people on course, a lot of it has to do with those honest conversations, those tough, honest conversations. And to know that feedback is not against us, it's not against how do we build that culture of trust knowing that I'm on your side. It was rough because a lot of people looked at feedback or accountability as something, oh, I'm going to be caught and watched over and all of a sudden kicked out the door. So we have to become a learning organization rather than I got you organization. And a lot of it has to do with excellence and coming to our theme of we care this much about our kids, that we want to be the best we can. And as we care for our kids, we care from each other. And one of our mission parts of our mission statement, or actually our purpose statement of educator, our last line on that is take great care of our people. And that meant we're going to be honest with each other, we're going to give each other feedback and we're going to celebrate together. And a lot of the feedback had also to do is to get positive feedback. A lot of people realize, you know, it's expected to do this, but we don't celebrate when you actually have that win, that success.
Andrew Cohn: Beautiful. Yeah. I could see how there can be an expectation. I shouldn't say that. I know for me, I have an association that teachers provide corrective feedback. Right. But what about the encouraging feedback and the positive feedback and the. You know, it's interesting. I remember. Wow, it's so interesting. Thank you for triggering this memory for me. 8th grade social studies, I had a teacher who gave me these copious comments in red ink on a written paper that he did. And he was so encouraging to me. And the fact that I'm remembering this more than a few years later, he said, you are a rara Avis. And Andrew, like, well, I don't even know what that meant. And he would seem like the fact that he would say something like that, it's almost like he took delight in providing that positive feedback as opposed to saying good job or something. And it's so interesting how I remember. I haven't thought about that in a very, very long time. But the power of encouragement that way. So, so powerful.
Stu Semigran: Yeah. And encouragement could be very honest. One of our schools we've worked with in LA, parents flock to come to this school, which is rare to come for evenings and family nights. And I wanted to find out what was at this school and what it was. And I'm very close to the principal who's now moved on to other things. Actually, he was a guest on a podcast of mine a few weeks ago. And what he did is he realized that parents were his partners because parents usually would get a phone call from the school and they would already be on the defense going, no, my kid isn't that bad. And they would get phone calls from the school with good news, which no one would ever call a parent with good news. They would always call. It's time for you to come in. I got to talk to you about your son or your daughter. And so when parents would come in, they almost disarmed them with kindness. But they also had some feedback at times as well. But it wasn't like, I want to just blast you and your kid. I want to let you know your kid was way out of line. And you see the potential. What your son and daughter is really about. And we're with them every day and we're with you to make the best of their lives. And when the parents knew that the school was on their side as a partner, things changed. And that came from a culture of kindness, that of a culture. I got you and I got your son and I'm going to tell you why he's got to fix it. Whole different way of feedback and relationship building.
Andrew Cohn: Beautiful.Could you touch on the other heartset skills and by the way, my understanding is that the Heartset skills are discussed in the Heartset Education book, which we can put a link to that book in the show notes here. So whether you choose to plug the book or just talk about the skills, I'd love to hear more about the principles.
Stu Semigran: Yeah, well, book was published Heartset Education: a Way of Living and Learning, published out 2023. And it was a way to capture all of what we've been learning with EduCare in a way that we can find it to more people. And in it there's stories, there's activities, and there's eight part set skills that are discussed with, with a lot of examples of how to put it into play, business, school, family and such. And the first one, and we talked about it today, is honoring. And the second one is praising, encouraging and they go hand in hand. And we talk a lot about how do you incorporate that for yourself prior to even doing it for somebody else. And unless you're experiencing your own honor, your own praise, encouragement, and that's not a common thing to do. I used to come home from teaching my, over the course of six or seven classes, 150 kids and I would be dishonoring myself once I walk through the door, man, you screwed up with that kid. And wait a minute, pull back. How many kids did you really, really connect with today? And there's a few kids you blew out or whatever that was. But kind of look at that deeper part of encouragement and honoring. And then the third skill has to do with listening. We call it listening from the heart. Listening to change, to win over, to make a better point, but listening because you truly want to learn and understand and care. And as activities we call them heart talks. Kids do them in classrooms, parents do them with kids. How do you listen with topics in ways that you want to understand, build empathy. And then we move on from that and we call it the power of choice that you always have your attitude, choice– no matter what's showing up in life. And how often do we want to blame and victimize and point fingers rather than go wait a minute, what's my part? How do I create my choices? Not just look at who do I point my finger at. Then we take some deeper levels. We move into a theme of forgiveness. How do we move from judgment to forgiveness? And we have our kids doing fun activities. We want you to walk around the school quietly and you're almost like a detective and listen to all the judgments you're hearing expressed. This is the roots of bullying. And I want you to start hearing what you're hearing and then reflect on what are the adjustments privately you hold against yourself. So we start to have them look at the power of forgiving not just others but yourself on your own self judgments. And I've had a lot of my students.
Andrew Cohn: I'm sorry, I just want to interrupt you one second because I love the word forgiveness. It's such a powerful word and it's not something that is discussed too often. How do you define that? At the simplest level for kids and in classrooms.
Stu Semigran: Yeah. Let me start with a story. You would talk about this or work with this with kids and we'd have kids being real. Honestly, you don't know what my father did to me over the years and my sister and you want me to forgive this? You know, you know, anything. And, and we start pulling back and go what we're talking about, what he did, was that right? No. Was that harmful? Likely so. But who's going to carry around that hurt and anger and hatred? It'll be your carrying not his. He may have gone. Who knows what he's up to. And for you to give yourself the benefit of letting it go. Not that what he did is right. This is where forgiveness plays a role. Who knows what he did for whatever reason, what his life was like as a child too. You don't know that. I don't know. But you don't need to carry that hatred in your heart because that's going to be a poison to yourself. And, and. But he didn't. He doesn't deserve it. He doesn't. But you deserve it for you. That's your gift to yourself and it doesn't make it any brighter or wronger for what he did. So that's your gift to yourself. And, and when you say the same about how you forgive yourself for all those tape loops of judgments that might be running for anything you might have done, that's your gift. So it takes a while. We do activities where they speak of it, where they write of it, where they practice it and parents and. And it's kind of out of the norm. But when kids can catch this, they know it's a lighter heart that they carry and that's what we want for them.
Andrew Cohn: Beautiful. And so it sounds as though each of these heart set skills are building one upon the other.
Stu Semigran: That's right.
Andrew Cohn: So what happens after forgiveness?
Stu Semigran: Yeah. So then we have the last four, actually three we have resolving conflict and people always look at that. How do I resolve fights and go well, guess what? Where's the conflict probably originating from? It's your conflict inside of yourself. These are mirroring your way. So, you know, what do you notice that you're judging and hard on yourself? And how do you shift on that? We work with something called the four twos. You can shift your altitude, you can shift your attitude, you can be more in gratitude, and sometimes you just need more fortitude. And we kind of look at how do you take any challenge through the lens of altitude, attitude, gratitude, and fortitude. And sometimes, you know, they go, whoa, guess what? I have more power inside of me than I thought. And shifting. And then the last, who we work with, uses all of your challenges as opportunities to learn. And then giving and receiving, which translate into service, which takes us right back into honoring and praising that when you really have a fullness of yourself, you're naturally inclined to want to serve yourself and others. And that takes us back into honoring and praising and listening and all that. So it's kind of a looping cycle of depth of self development. And in public schools, we don't. We don't go at it this way. It's very fun and pieces put together, but these skill sets get ingrained in our kids and in our teachers. And that's what I saw from one classroom going, how do we systematize that? And with the book part of that way to bring it into teaching programs at colleges, bringing it into internships with new teachers and. And that's part of our aspiration.
Andrew Cohn: Beautiful. Just beautiful. I'm just wondering if there may be another story that you may want to tell perhaps that went into how some of the hearts that skills were formed or sequenced or. Or traction or resistance. My sense is that you're just a, you know, a font of good stories with respect to just human nature and the learning curve and how people can receive and grow. Anything just come to mind in terms of a story.
Stu Semigran: Well, what comes to mind has to do with me, like these skills. I'm with myself all the time with them, so. And we all know we usually teach what we most need to learn. So I'm looking at gentleness right now in my life and pausing more in my life. I'm a fast track, getting everything done, building programs. And I'm at a stage in my life at my age. And as I've stepped back from being CEO of Educare, I'm going, there's more opportunity now to reflect and pause and get off the doing cycle. Not that I won't be doing but to source it from a place of what's now present for me. And I have to realize that service is part of my blood, my fabric. But that doesn't mean I have to run out the door every day and change the world. You know, some of them just Stu. You have to go to a chiropractor. Your back's been out for too long. Take your time to do that. So I think a lot of it is just taking it into the present moment and just using those skills as life skills. And then I get the thrill of hearing from kids of mine share with me where they are in their lives. And that's a great joy to know that. About 20% of EduCare staff, now close to 500, were our students 10, 15 years ago. And now they're back in their communities as engineers, as recreational leaders on staff with EduCare, helping the next generation in their home town, their home part of the city. I go not much better than that to know kids are giving back and that level of service. I think a lot of people look at our youth, and it's a tough time for kids with mental health issues and all the hardships that are going on in the world around them right now, immigration and all that that's impacted them, that they are standing into service in great ways. We had the last many years, five, six years taking groups of students from our high schools up to Sacramento and California to speak to congressional leaders about the need for funding for education. They didn't want to hear from people like me. And these kids would speak from their heart about what their schools needed. Their parents would come with them, and that gives me a lot of hope, a lot of optimism and excitement that our kids are really stepping into their leadership because we cull compassionate and courageous leaders. You can carry both. You could be a strong, brave leader, and you can do it out of the goodness of your heart. And I really believe people don't see that in our youth. They just think they're. They're off getting big jobs or they're just getting in trouble or they're in gangs. There's a lot of kids leading the way into service leadership today, and I just want people to know that. I see it. Very inspiring.
Andrew Cohn: Where do you find that? Where would you look to see that? I'm just wondering.
Stu Semigran: Yeah, well, our website, we tell our stories. Educarefoundation.com is an organization. There's many organizations. If you go to the university website, UCLA has a center for the science of forget the name. But the science of Kindness, good health, UCLA, Harvard, many of the universities are now teaching not necessarily our curriculum, but the idea of building service leadership and compassionate leaders and young people. So I would probably go on the sites and just check that out.
Andrew Cohn: Yeah. Is it something called the Badari Kindness Institute at ucla? Is that something?
Stu Semigran: There's that at UCLA. Berkeley has one good science. I was actually speaking at Berkeley, but that is one at UCLA as well. After School alliance out of Washington D.C. they're the kind of the conduit and leader for after school programs across the country. And a lot of it has to do with service leadership. How do kids step into service leadership? The app is full alliance, but Educare foundation, we're telling our stories left and right.
Andrew Cohn: Great. So that's educarefoundation.com foundation.com got it. Well, I want to put some links in the show notes so people can look for more. If people want to connect with you, do they want to go through the EduCare website? Is that the best way right now?
Stu Semigran: Probably contact me directly. They could get them through EduCare but since I'm not day to day active, they can just contact me. At stusemigran@gmail.com
Andrew Cohn: Or do you want to be left alone for a little bit as you back off?I want to be careful.
Stu Semigran:. I'm out there. No, I'm active. I love to be active. But so I'm open to people who are really interested in carrying that message that we've been talking about today.
Andrew Cohn: Beautiful.No, I get it. You're not, you're not going anywhere. Things will shift, the pieces of the puzzle will shift. But your energy is still going to be out there is my sense because this who you are.
Stu Semigran: Yeah. And it's not just me. I think what, what I see around me, Andrew, there's something growing, I think of people caring. So that love word isn't whatever we call it isn't so foreign anymore. I was very close friends with the leader for after school programs who led California for many years. Still does. And he would wear a hat inside of his speeches around the state with love as his word. And he would talk about leading with love. And we were talking with Educare about love as a foundation for education. And I think more and more people coming out of the closet that love isn't foreign word, it's what's carrying us right now. And I think so many are looking to make that more known and more available because we look at our world and there's a lot that we need right now.
Andrew Cohn: Well, I think this is a beautiful place to land the plane. Thank you Stu for your loving energy and attention and focus, your impact, your dedication, inspiration. My head is percolating about how might I get involved and how frankly I'm thinking about, just selfishly forgive me about how to turn these heartset skills into business leadership principles with work teams and I work a lot with cross functional teams and global teams and these are skills. Maybe if we ever do a part two it's like where's the global component to this?
Stu Semigran: Exactly. I mean that's really big in my world. We've done work in Israel, we've done work in other nations. Arab and Jewish students together, Arabs, Jewish teachers together, which was unheard of back when we were bringing it forward. So I always look at the work of educators now expanding globally as well.
Andrew Cohn: Part said so I'm all aboard. Just know yeah thank you so much Stu. Really appreciate your time. Looking forward to continuing the conversation and thank you for all you do and more importantly, for all you are.
Stu Semigran: Thank you so much, Andrew. My pleasure.
Andrew Cohn: Thank you for listening to Spirituality in Leadership. If you want to access this wealth of knowledge and insight on a regular basis, please subscribe to the show. Join the network of leaders who want to do and be better. You can go to the site spiritualityinleadership.com or your preferred podcast platform to catch all the episodes and learn more. Until next time, take good care of yourself.